Page 5 of Kurt's 1970 Senate Transcript
bookstore, maybe the person who put that out may think some militant nut can go in the law store and buy from them.
Senator PERCY. I know, but the rationale for your activities is not made fully valid by pointing out that someone else also does it. You can point out almost anything that someone else is doing and that does not justify your doing it.
I am trying to determine what your motivation is. I take it you have had time on your hands. How long has it been since you have been employed by someone else ?
Mr. Sisco. About April of last year.
Senator PERCY. You have not been employed since then other than this activity ?
Mr. Sisco. That is right.
Senator PERCY. What are your intentions for the future, if I might ask?
Mr. Sisco. Well, I might get a job with the welfare department.
Senator PERCY. You what ?
Mr. Sisco. Probably after this, no. But at least I am in with them. I took the examination.
Senator PERCY. Are you doing anything else now besides engaging in the distribution of these publications ?
Mr. Sisco. Well, I am not even doing that. I don't have them advertised anywhere.
Senator PERCY. You don't have them advertised anywhere?
Mr. Sisco. No.
Senator PERCY. In the March 15, 197O, edition of Shotgun News, did you advertise the "Militant's Formulary" ?
Mr. Sisco. Yes. But they canceled any further advertisements.
Senator PERCY. Going back to Mr. Kulak, Mr. Kulak is presumably responsible also for several explosions in South Chicago, including Goldblatts Department Store, in which several persons were killed. Knowing that now the material you are distributing gets into these kinds of hands, has it caused you to reassess whether or not you should continue in this activity?
Mr. Sisco. It has made me more determined, I think, that more officials should know how easy it is for an individual to cause all sorts of destruction around himself. Unless it is pointed out plainly so that you can understand.
For instance, I write a book and say such-and-such a thing can be done and you being an intelligent person, maybe it does not occur to you exactly how it can be done. So, you don't figure your enemy can do it. But if I make it so clear that you can imagine yourself making a bomb, then you can imagine your enemy making a bomb and you might do something then to stop it.
Senator PERCY. In others words, if you give an instruction booklet on how easy it is to kill a person through arson, your purpose, as you would interpret it then, would be to show police officers how easy it would be, not how to instruct someone to carry out that act ?
Mr. Sisco. That is the long-range idea.
Senator PERCY. Isn't that, comparable? Isn't that the same rationale you are using?
Mr. Sisco. It might be but I maintain that these bomb books and the information on making bombs are so prevalent that you can't stop it. You can't even begin to stop it.
For instance, in the Monday, March 16, 1970, issue of the San Francisco Chronicle, which has about a million distributorship, they have here the "Jar of Death," showing exactly how to make a bomb. They have an article telling exactly how to get the stuff for it.
Here they have a "people's grenade," telling how to put black powder in test tubes and put ceramic clay around it and put stones in it and insert the fuse. It leaves nothing to the imagination.
Here is a newspaper, and here it is. So, I put out my book and everybody jumps all over me but these people here can do it, and it does not seem too reasonable to me. I maintain if you have a certain class of people in the country like this Kulak who was a former mental patient, I would never have let the guy out. In fact, I might have put him to sleep but that is beside the point.
Anyway, you have all these grizzled mediocrities all over the country telling how they are going to destroy the country; they are the ones you should pick up and put under preventive custody, if not worse.
Now, I have several publications that they put out that leaves—here is one, the Berkeley Barb; it shows the Capitol Building toppling.
The CHAIRMAN. If you will submit those publications to the committee, I will be glad to receive them and have them marked as exhibits, if you don't want to keep them.
Mr. Sisco. You could not send them back to me? Oh, well, I can get other copies.
The CHAIRMAN. Let them be received and marked exhibit 842. ,
(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit Nos. 842A-842C"for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)
Mr. Sisco. As I repeat, I think it is too late to stop the bomb books. This one put out by the Army which has basically the same stuff that is in my "Formulary." It is time now that you start getting rid of these people who are openly boasting about how they are going to pull the Government down.
Senator PERCY. Mr. Sisco, have you or your organization supplied Dr. James Warner, also known as the Sons of Liberty, Hollywood, Calif., with the U.S. training manual, TM-31-200-1?
Mr. Sisco. No; I haven't. This is the one you are talking about. This was sent to me by a bookshop.
Senator PERCY. Where did you get that book ?
Mr. Sisco. It was sent to me by a bookshop in Oakland. She sold 20 copies of my "Formulary."
Senator PERCY. Do you know James Wanner ?
Mr. Sisco. I certainly do. I have known him for years.
Senator PERCY. What is your relationship with him ?
Mr. Sisco. None whatever.
Senator PERCY. Could you describe in what way you know him, how you met him, and what your relationship is with him ?
Mr. Sisco. I am a rightwinger by politics. So is he. We have known each other for years. I haven't seen him for over a year.
Senator PERCY. Do you pay any attention as to who may write is requesting your publications ?
[Back] [Home] [Up] [Next]
bookstore, maybe the person who put that out may think some militant nut can go in the law store and buy from them.
Senator PERCY. I know, but the rationale for your activities is not made fully valid by pointing out that someone else also does it. You can point out almost anything that someone else is doing and that does not justify your doing it.
I am trying to determine what your motivation is. I take it you have had time on your hands. How long has it been since you have been employed by someone else ?
Mr. Sisco. About April of last year.
Senator PERCY. You have not been employed since then other than this activity ?
Mr. Sisco. That is right.
Senator PERCY. What are your intentions for the future, if I might ask?
Mr. Sisco. Well, I might get a job with the welfare department.
Senator PERCY. You what ?
Mr. Sisco. Probably after this, no. But at least I am in with them. I took the examination.
Senator PERCY. Are you doing anything else now besides engaging in the distribution of these publications ?
Mr. Sisco. Well, I am not even doing that. I don't have them advertised anywhere.
Senator PERCY. You don't have them advertised anywhere?
Mr. Sisco. No.
Senator PERCY. In the March 15, 197O, edition of Shotgun News, did you advertise the "Militant's Formulary" ?
Mr. Sisco. Yes. But they canceled any further advertisements.
Senator PERCY. Going back to Mr. Kulak, Mr. Kulak is presumably responsible also for several explosions in South Chicago, including Goldblatts Department Store, in which several persons were killed. Knowing that now the material you are distributing gets into these kinds of hands, has it caused you to reassess whether or not you should continue in this activity?
Mr. Sisco. It has made me more determined, I think, that more officials should know how easy it is for an individual to cause all sorts of destruction around himself. Unless it is pointed out plainly so that you can understand.
For instance, I write a book and say such-and-such a thing can be done and you being an intelligent person, maybe it does not occur to you exactly how it can be done. So, you don't figure your enemy can do it. But if I make it so clear that you can imagine yourself making a bomb, then you can imagine your enemy making a bomb and you might do something then to stop it.
Senator PERCY. In others words, if you give an instruction booklet on how easy it is to kill a person through arson, your purpose, as you would interpret it then, would be to show police officers how easy it would be, not how to instruct someone to carry out that act ?
Mr. Sisco. That is the long-range idea.
Senator PERCY. Isn't that, comparable? Isn't that the same rationale you are using?
Mr. Sisco. It might be but I maintain that these bomb books and the information on making bombs are so prevalent that you can't stop it. You can't even begin to stop it.
For instance, in the Monday, March 16, 1970, issue of the San Francisco Chronicle, which has about a million distributorship, they have here the "Jar of Death," showing exactly how to make a bomb. They have an article telling exactly how to get the stuff for it.
Here they have a "people's grenade," telling how to put black powder in test tubes and put ceramic clay around it and put stones in it and insert the fuse. It leaves nothing to the imagination.
Here is a newspaper, and here it is. So, I put out my book and everybody jumps all over me but these people here can do it, and it does not seem too reasonable to me. I maintain if you have a certain class of people in the country like this Kulak who was a former mental patient, I would never have let the guy out. In fact, I might have put him to sleep but that is beside the point.
Anyway, you have all these grizzled mediocrities all over the country telling how they are going to destroy the country; they are the ones you should pick up and put under preventive custody, if not worse.
Now, I have several publications that they put out that leaves—here is one, the Berkeley Barb; it shows the Capitol Building toppling.
The CHAIRMAN. If you will submit those publications to the committee, I will be glad to receive them and have them marked as exhibits, if you don't want to keep them.
Mr. Sisco. You could not send them back to me? Oh, well, I can get other copies.
The CHAIRMAN. Let them be received and marked exhibit 842. ,
(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit Nos. 842A-842C"for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)
Mr. Sisco. As I repeat, I think it is too late to stop the bomb books. This one put out by the Army which has basically the same stuff that is in my "Formulary." It is time now that you start getting rid of these people who are openly boasting about how they are going to pull the Government down.
Senator PERCY. Mr. Sisco, have you or your organization supplied Dr. James Warner, also known as the Sons of Liberty, Hollywood, Calif., with the U.S. training manual, TM-31-200-1?
Mr. Sisco. No; I haven't. This is the one you are talking about. This was sent to me by a bookshop.
Senator PERCY. Where did you get that book ?
Mr. Sisco. It was sent to me by a bookshop in Oakland. She sold 20 copies of my "Formulary."
Senator PERCY. Do you know James Wanner ?
Mr. Sisco. I certainly do. I have known him for years.
Senator PERCY. What is your relationship with him ?
Mr. Sisco. None whatever.
Senator PERCY. Could you describe in what way you know him, how you met him, and what your relationship is with him ?
Mr. Sisco. I am a rightwinger by politics. So is he. We have known each other for years. I haven't seen him for over a year.
Senator PERCY. Do you pay any attention as to who may write is requesting your publications ?
[Back] [Home] [Up] [Next]