Page 12 of Kurt's 1970 Senate Transcript
Mr. Sisco. No.
Senator PERCY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. You spoke a while ago about law enforcement
becoming less effective all the time.
Since you are close to some elements of these minority
groups and minority organizations, since you are engaged in the business
of disseminating information about how to make weapons for sabotage, guerrilla
warfare and so forth, what is your idea about the criminal today, those
who are engaged in those activities ? Are they more emboldened today to
commit crime than they would be if the law were enforced ?
Mr. Sisco. They certainly are.
The CHAIRMAN. Is the way the law enforced today, is it
becoming a less deterrent all the time to criminals?
Mr. Sisco. That is my feeling.
The CHAIRMAN. These people who are bombing and threatening
to destroy the Government and so forth?
Mr. Sisco. Yes. When you get a group of leftists
together and they know who has been setting bombs and they see the person
running around, or like one policeman said, he said, "You can take a punk
who robs a liquor store and his friend will see him come out of the liquor
store with a gun in his hands. The police will catch him. Three days later,
he will be out on bail and he will be out a year, and this gives his friends
encouragement that they can do it themselves."
I have seen it so often. As long as you don't have
any way to take these absolutely dangerous characters and restrain them,
this is going to encourage the more timid to the point where just everyone
and his brother who has any gripes about the Government will start throwing
bombs, fire bombs or otherwise.
The CHAIRMAN. They feel they can do it with impunity;
they can get by with it; the law enforcement is so weak that there is not
any danger of legal reprisals against them ?
Mr. Sisco. Well, the statistics show that.
The CHAIRMAN. Another thing you speak of, that their friends
know they committed a crime and 3 days later they are out on bail, it may
be a year or two before they are tried.
That also tends to encourage the criminal; there is no
real penalty or any likelihood of penalty or punishment for his violating
the law.
Mr. Sisco. Not so much that there is no penalty
but the penalty is so far in the future. If you get out on bail for a year,
then you can do all kinds of things in that time. In the meantime, you
march around your friends telling them what a great guy you are. The younger
ones get impressed.
If you happen to go to jail a year later for 10
years even, you have still inculcated these people with the idea that you
have done something that shows class and before you are put in jail they
are doing the same thing.
The CHAIRMAN. That makes them heroes among certain classes
of people.
Mr. Sisco. That is right.
The CHAIRMAN. And others who want to emulate this kind
of person and become a hero follow the example he set.
Mr. Sisco. That is right. If Huey Newton in California
does get out on bail, you will have a Black Panther organization that you
will have to go in with machineguns. That will give them such a spurt of
pride and arrogance that the only way to stop them will be for total violence
against them.
The CHAIRMAN. I don't know how valuable your opinion is—this
laxity in the law enforcement, the inability of government to enforce the
law, do you have any opinion about it as to whether this condition can
continue without improvement ? I mean that if crime continues to increase
as it has in the last few years; if it continues at that rate, do you have
any idea what is going to happen in this country ?
Mr. Sisco. I would say in about 10 years you won't
be sitting there. You will be out fighting in the streets if you are armed,
and if you are lucky.
The CHAIRMAN. In other words, we are moving, due to the
inability or unwillingness of government at all levels to enforce its laws,
in view of our inability or unwillingness to effectively enforce the laws
against crime and protect society from the ravages of the criminal, we
are moving toward a state of anarchy ?
Mr. Sisco. Definitely, sir. Take the Manson case.
I am pretty sure that Manson is going to get off scot free, or the trial
will be delayed indefinitely.
The CHAIRMAN. I would rather you would not discuss that.
I don't want to prejudice that trial. We have a ruling here that when cases
are being tried, we don't make references to them, not only the Manson
case.
Mr. Sisco. It is legally so hard for society to
repress or get rid of its dangerous undesirables that becoming a dangerous
undesirable is almost a status symbol now.
The CHAIRMAN. It is a status symbol now.
Mr. Sisco. Definitely. The dirtiest and the hairiest
and the meanest have the most friends.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you know William Thoreson, 2801 Broadway,
San Francisco, before he was killed ?
Mr. Sisco. Yes. He bought one of my books. His letter
is in here some place. I was waiting for a followup on that and his wife
killed him. That was a disappointment.
The CHAIRMAN. I don't know if his wife did it.
Mr. Sisco. She said she did. Besides, he was on
marihuana, and he was messed up in his mind.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you know Don McLean of Forest Grove,
Oreg. ?
Mr. Sisco. Yes. He bought one.
The CHAIRMAN. As another one of your customers?
Mr. Sisco. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. He is another one of your customers ?
Mr. Sisco. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. He is now under arrest, I believe, charged
with the illegal possession of automatic rifles and explosives.
Mr. Sisco. Yes. That is nonsense. I mean, it is
nonsense that he should mess with things like that.
The CHAIRMAN. Probably so. Do you know Sam Napier?
Mr. Sisco. Yes.
